Curse

generik · Sep 06, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Has anyone else noticed the second a dissaproving view of arena nets action is taken in a thread, a wave of newly registered/seldom posting, people wash up to talk about how wonderful AN is, and how ingenious they must be for such and such activity? (I mean, aside from the usual ball holders)

What? You accusing Anet of astroturfing?

*slaps shadowfell*

shadowfell · Sep 06, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

What? You accusing Anet of astroturfing?

*slaps shadowfell*

If the synthetics fit...

But hey, no slapping

I'm not accusing anyone, of anything, I just find it....curious.

JR · Sep 06, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

If the synthetics fit...

But hey, no slapping

I'm not accusing anyone, of anything, I just find it....curious.

You are quite blatantly implying something that is absolutely ridiculous on every possible level. To quote Gaile herself; "Less drama, more thinking."

baz777 · Sep 06, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

We have: buy character slot, now buy skill set.

What next?

Buy level 20 character, buy max weapons, buy reveal map?

Won’t be any point in playing this game soon

In my opinion this is a big step in the wrong direction

baz777 · Sep 06, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by overclocked

Who else is waiting for all the pve noobs to start crying about how anet favors pvp, pve never gets anything, and that they will soon quit guildwars?

Always nice to see constructive, mature debate brought to the table

Ninna · Sep 06, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by baz777

What next?

Buy level 20 character, buy max weapons, buy reveal map?

can always read the forums ...

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0037244&page=5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We'll always be very careful about what we offer. Options will be given that are reasonable and fair, that do not unbalance the game or cause concerns amongst players who do not choose to exercise the option.

We won't offer gold for sale, for instance, or "instant-levels" or other things such as that. I don't imagine you'll see "Uber Items of Deadliness" that cause all others to fall to uselessness. We care too much about balance and about the viability of our game in the short-term and in the long-term to take risks with sales that would unsettle things.

That is why the skills are Prophecies skills only, and why the Prophecies skills were offered at this time. Factions skills will not be on the shelves for some time, meaning that those who have earned them, or are still earning them, need not be concerned about aspects of sales affecting their viability. That is also why this offer is for PvP characters only. By offering in this manner, we preserve accomplishment, and we preserve the value and the integrity of titles.

I see what is being offered as a very good compromise between the request of many different types of players, one that addresses the concerns of both PvE and PvP players. We'll be listening to your thoughts, by all means, and will certainly afford them careful consideration as we move forward with a careful and conservative plan for enlarging the Guild Wars Official Store in ways that are only positive.

Neriandal Freit · Sep 06, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I wish this topic would just die.

All of you, mods and admins including, are just bickering back and forth, back and forth. Saying the same things time after time after time and I'm getting rather tired of seeing this undercover flamewar that is this thread.

Once and for all, we asked for a shop. We asked for slots. We asked to get skills, but what none of you seem to notice is that this is truely geared towards PvP'ing Only people. Now, if you want to buy these, great. Like Gaile said, "Its your choice, we're not forcing you to buy these.", which seems none of you are understanding.

Now, if, IF, this ever comes to PvE, then it will be the end of this game, I agree with those who say this. But, I suspect it wont because everyone, my self including, suggested a PvP Only Guildwars Expansion, we're getting it drip by drip!!!

So enough of all of this bickering, Guildwarsguru isn't some newb site with every single member being an idiot. None of you realize how fantastic it is to have people like Gaile Gray post in our forum, and this site be the number FOURTH site out of 200!

If you dont like what you CAN CHOOSE to buy from the store, then I suggest you leave the game, the forum and all of this behind. We dont need your negativity which only spreads more negativity. Guildwars and ANET dont need your continous negativity, and Guildwarsguru doesnt need it either.

Stockholm · Sep 06, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

I wish this topic would just die.

All of you, mods and admins including, are just bickering back and forth, back and forth. Saying the same things time after time after time and I'm getting rather tired of seeing this undercover flamewar that is this thread.

So enough of all of this bickering, Guildwarsguru isn't some newb site with every single member being an idiot. None of you realize how fantastic it is to have people like Gaile Gray post in our forum, and this site be the number FOURTH site out of 200!

It is great, that she posts here, and it is great that the community is allowed to freely express concernce they have straight to a Corp. rep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

If you dont like what you CAN CHOOSE to buy from the store, then I suggest you leave the game, the forum and all of this behind. We dont need your negativity which only spreads more negativity. Guildwars and ANET dont need your continous negativity, and Guildwarsguru doesnt need it either.

Economicly it would be better if you left, if you don't like it.
People are expressing concernces they have about the game, as is the point with a forum, we are not here to just praise the allmighty A-Net.
So if you don't like the right of free expression, what are you doing on a forum?

Neriandal Freit · Sep 06, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I'm not saying I dont like it, I support it. But everyone keeps saying the same thing over and over again aren't they?

This topic has ran it's course, plain and simple. Now it's just harvesting undercover flamewars.

Stockholm · Sep 06, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

The thread could do with a bit off cleaning up, I agree on that.

Chris Blackstar · Sep 06, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I have drawn two conclusions from this thread, one: players who understand what Anet is trying to do and agree with the fact that it will not effect the community or game in any way, Smart people
Two: Players who bash, bitch and complain that it's a step in the wrong direction, who must have very little understanding for how the real world works, basicly you are: DEE,DEE,DEE!!!!!

shadowfell · Sep 06, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

You are quite blatantly implying something that is absolutely ridiculous on every possible level. To quote Gaile herself; "Less drama, more thinking."

Yes, I am sorry, what was I thinking! Let me go back to counting my mini pets now.

Loviatar · Sep 06, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Has anyone else noticed the second a dissaproving view of arena nets action is taken in a thread, a wave of newly registered/seldom posting, people wash up to talk about how wonderful AN is, and how ingenious they must be for such and such activity? (I mean, aside from the usual ball holders)

on the other hand has anybody wondered at the sudden rash of people that register and make a first time thread bashing something Anet does that they dont like?

or the sudden rash of new posters that jump on the thread to support that new complaint poster?

or if you go to other forums you find that most of them are TGH/GWO regulars and what is posted here is straight cut/paste?

just coincidence of course (snicker)

shadowfell · Sep 06, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

on the other hand has anybody wondered at the sudden rash of people that register and make a first time thread bashing something Anet does that they dont like?

or the sudden rash of new posters that jump on the thread to support that new complaint poster?

or if you go to other forums you find that most of them are TGH/GWO regulars and what is posted here is straight cut/paste?

just coincidence of course (snicker)

You mean, aside from the usual trolls? Loviatar?

As for GWO, I am registered there, but have maybe, 30 posts or so. I don't like having to log in to read a forum, and just spend most of my time here, so, wouldn't know about that place.

Wrynn · Sep 06, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

If the synthetics fit...

But hey, no slapping

I'm not accusing anyone, of anything, I just find it....curious.

And theres just as many newly registered, seldom posting people who are bashing it in this thread too.

Who SERIOUSLY believes that ANet is going to start offering:
Pre-leveled characters
High End Armor
Gold
"Unbalanced" Items
Fame
Champion Points
Other titles

... to the store? Seriously? You really believe that they would add ANY Of that? Just save yourself the time and uninstall the game, because, while its one thing for a company to seek new forms of income, THEY ARENT STUPID.
If they offered ANY of that in the store, they KNOW people would leave the game in droves, on the spot.

Now, if they offered:
Fancy skin, unique green weapons (that arent drops)
Possibly some unique avatar upgrades (No one complains in gunbound that there is special avatar items that you have to pay RL money for, its how they make their money off of a FREE GAME.
As efficient as GW is at using bandwidth, it STILL TAKES LOTS OF SERVERS TO KEEP IT GOING. Servers, and the bandwidth to keep YOU online, ARE NOT CHEAP NOR FREE. ANet looking for a way to supplement their income, it what is in my eyes, quite innocuous ways, I applaud their decision on the matter. They found a way to get a bit more money thats almost PURE margin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark

@wrynn... i know pve vs pve has been talked before... but you can buy your victo's (just to say one) for pvp char then customize it in guild hall (if you
have the weapon guy)... now you have more than 2 sets...
Sooner or later ha will be filled again (overpopulated i mean) with sellers

i'm sure they'll soon will add an armor switcher/crafter in the gh... so more sets for pvp chars
secondary prof changer is already in temple... hope that he will come soon in GH...

anyway skill unlock pack mean nothing to me... capping skills and items is fun (even frustrating sometimes... mineral sping anyone?)... that's only another way to allow lazy players to unlock skills... btw... i hope (but i fear so) we will never see a 15k kurzik monk or fow ele armors available as off-game object buyable by anyone ...

Yes I COULD do that, however, for a warrior or ranger (or assassin, or forthcoming paragon and dervish)
This is NOT a viable way to increase your versatility in game, its expensive for one, and once that weapon gets customized, if you need to remake the pvp char, well, there went 20-30k down the drain.
For casters, bringing other weapons is a bit more viable, because you dont need them customized. (And I got a Totem axe and 20/20 Insp offhand for rolling a pvp monk on a second account for just that purpose)
HOWEVER, pvp only characters Cannot head swap, drop the sup rune, change armor IN THE GAME.

Consider, Im on my monk, I have multiple suits of armor, we face a no-warrior team, but lots of enchant drain, well, Im going to put on my Wanderers suit. Facing IWAY, or warrior heavy? Throw on Judges. Normal balanced team? Got my +10 enchanted suit. I get spiked down two times? Drop the sup rune, get 75 HP back. grab my 30/30 staff that I DONT use normally.
I have a thousand more options with my specced out pves.

Domino · Sep 06, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

I have drawn two conclusions from this thread, one: players who understand what Anet is trying to do and agree with the fact that it will not effect the community or game in any way, Smart people
Two: Players who bash, bitch and complain that it's a step in the wrong direction, who must have very little understanding for how the real world works, basicly you are: DEE,DEE,DEE!!!!!

I may not fully understand how the real world works, but at least I know the difference between affect and effect.

Somebody needs to take English 1301 over again before making blanket statements about how stupid everyone is.

Chris Blackstar · Sep 06, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

I may not fully understand how the real world works, but at least I know the difference between affect and effect.

Somebody needs to take English 1301 over again before making blanket statements about how stupid everyone is.

That is a perceptive view you have, but an honest mistake on my part given that AFFECT, an EFFECT while having both different meanings, tend to still confuse the best of us.

So why put yourself down, by saying you don't understand how the real world works. You are one of the smart ones, give yourself some credit already.

Wrynn · Sep 06, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

I may not fully understand how the real world works, but at least I know the difference between affect and effect.

Somebody needs to take English 1301 over again before making blanket statements about how stupid everyone is.

Peoples misuse of the two words hardly changes his statement

The EFFECT on the game is minimal at best.

The only people directly AFFECTED by these offerings are people who want to pvp sooner and have the money to spend to do so.

Better?

Im still waiting on a valid argument against it besides "ZOMG MY TIME WAS WASTED" or "BUYING SKILLS MAKES YOU A BETTER PLAYER THAN ME"

Because thats all im seeing from the "disagree" side.

Malice Black · Sep 07, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

29 pages i think every angle has been covered atleast twice by now.

there is no valid reason why this was a bad idea, i'm going to purchase skills..call me a nub/noob/lazy bastard or w/e i dont care because either way i still be shit at PvP..

Minus Sign · Sep 07, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

You say DEE, DEE, DEE. I look at you and think Bah bah Anet sheep, have you any wool. At this point, you have no stance on this issue any more. It’s gone from “This was for the players” to “it’s economics 101”. You’ve gone from its not about the money, to it is about the money, and back again. About the only thing you seem to be firm on is that players who disagree with you must be dumb and/or naive.

Chris Blackstar, I urge you to scroll through this thread again before you insult—directly or indirectly—the nay sayers again. There are as many eloquently written arguments for as against; as many leet speak uber pwnsauce comments on one side as the other.

Trying to lump all the “smart people” on your side of the argument only makes you look foolish to any unbiased observer of this thread, and serves to weaken your own stance, devalues your own words…

Hmm. On second thought, carry on

I do know something about the real world that you appear to be ignoring. You get nothing you don’t take or ask for and people will take anything from you if you let them.

Nay sayers feel that Anet is taking something from them with this. Or they fear it a prelude to something far worse. They feel cheated, lied to, distrustful and abused. And they are standing up for themselves. You may not like their stance, but you need to start respecting them in this forum.

It’s your right to feel a need to protect what you want, just as it’s our right to defend ourselves against what we feel is inequitable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrynn

Im still waiting on a valid argument against it besides "ZOMG MY TIME WAS WASTED" or "BUYING SKILLS MAKES YOU A BETTER PLAYER THAN ME"

Because thats all im seeing from the "disagree" side.

Read again. There are multiple arguments against this, from disadvantages to newbs who don't purchase, showing a dangerous trend from Anet that could threaten the "no hidden fee/free aftermarket content" stance they claimed over a year ago, violation of their own EULA without prior editing, and many more. Some are valid, some are silly. I can only assume that if you did not see the other arguments, you have not looked hard enough. That is not a slant on your efforts; we're going on 29 pages. But the arguments do exist. Gaile has countered several herself--and I'll be in Missouri while we wait to see if Anet keeps as good as her word--but they are within the thread.

EDIT: Wrynn, you all but QFT gr3g and then you say we only have 2 arguments? He talks about 6 very real concerns in this thread. I guess its true what they say about ass-u-me-ing things. You, sir, are seeing only what you want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

I think you are confusing several different forces into glib phrases. Let me try to unmash the issue slightly:
1. Paying to unlock primarily PvP content: What these skill unlock packs do. Note that this category does not include earnable PvP content such as fame or faction points and PvP titles, which is point 2:
2. Paying to obtain earnable PvP content: This will kill the game overnight, so it will never happen. No matter how much you think ArenaNet or NCSoft are money grubbing corporations, you have to agree that they are not stupid.
3. Paying to obtain earnable PvE content: What many fear will result from 1. In this category are such things as paying to obtain money, 15k/FoW armor, rare greens, etc. This is perhaps a gray area because you can then use your bought money to buy yourself drunkard titles and stuff, which is clearly undesirable. But there is some room for good sense to prevail here.
4. Paying to obtain non-earnable but balanced PvE content: What is mostly undiscussed in this thread, but as such presents fewer ethical problems than 3 above. In this category are such things as paying for brand new weapon skins, face models, armor models, etc. I personally don't have any problem with this category as this content will be purely classified as "extra". I never bought any of the prerelease packs and I don't find myself pining for the Spiritbinder that I can never have.
5. Paying to obtain unbalanced PvE content: What I expect will never happen as long as the PvE-PvP coupling remains intact, but it is definitely a possibility. Many PvE players will be happy with this, I expect.
6. Paying to obtain unbalanced PvP content such as weapons or armor: What will kill the game the moment it's implemented.

Ex: I missed this post. I’d like to rebut your statements gr3g.

1 Paying to obtain primarily PvP content. While UAS may not be fame, the fear that it will have an impact on PvP is very real. Not HA--perhaps--or GvG, but lower echelon play certainly. Be honest; how many players here only enter RA to farm Balth? I’ll be honest; it’s the only reason I go in there. What happens to the RA community when it is reduced to only those who need to farm Balth Faction because they are new to the game and can’t afford Prophecies+UAS?

To them, UAS will—already does imho—represent an unfair advantage versus someone who bought the game at the same time they did.

2 Paying to obtain earnable PvP content. This I do agree with you on. I see no fame purchases in the near future in the Online store. One possible concern would be a future exploit—unintentional one would hope—that would allow people to “buy” a title. An example might be Luxon jade and Kurzick amber. While we have to redeem favor to gain these items today, the reverse may be true in future Chapter arenas. This is a small concern, however, and hardly worth mentioning.

3 Paying to obtain earnable PvE content. Of greatest concern, mostly due to 4, so I hope you don’t mind I skip down one to deal with both.

4 Paying to obtain non-earnable but balanced PvE content. A very large percentage of the game community relies on the PvE economy. From HA holding PvPers spam selling Golds they earn in Halls to pay for unlock skills and purchase multiple sets of armor to the part-time PvEer who just wants to clear his inventrory for a better profit, find the next uber leet green, or grind their way into a set of FoW the hard way. Offering ANY balanced PvE item for real world money would upset the game economy on a fundamental level. The “Rich” would liquidate quickly to protect their investments, leaving the Poor with a devalued market and no foreseeable way to earn plat for upper tier items…beyond paying for them online.

While you--one player--may not "pine" for special items, people have offered me RL money for some of my greens when I refused to sell them.

Whether it be special--only purchasable online--or not, any item that is balanced to in-game equipment and easily available to all would destroy the in-game economy. If Time=Money, why work for 3 to 30 (depending on drop ratio) hours online to farm a special item when you can work 1/2 hour at your job and afford to purchase one as good--or slightly better for your build styles--with cash?

The greatest point in favor of Anet doing this is very simple: If Skills are no longer content, how can armor be? How is a weapon content, if the spell you cast it with is not? If Anet has gained the power to choose what they will sell us and what they offer for free, why not charge us for everything?

Gaile has commented on PvE content—though I found her response slightly unclear. I’ve seen no response on “special offers” available in the online store. Keep in mind; they’ve done it twice—three times soon. We should all be farmiliar with the updated song packs offered on the Guild Wars official webiste (though offered from a third party, not Anet or NCSoft). Also, the Korean Coke promo gave accounts balanced weapon items for purchase of special Coke cans a good while back. This month’s PC gamer will be giving you a mini-pet with purchase. If they can do it via a third party, why not directly through the online store? What value is a Skill Eater if you can customize your green, name it and play with it on your toon—maxed req 9 of course—and not have to spend odious amounts of time farming for in-game plat or hunting bosses for phat lewts. How much money would you save if you only had to buy armor? And then…what happens when they let you buy “special” armor skins online as well?

5 Paying to obtain unbalanced PvE content. I agree with you, but at the same time not. As I hope is shown above, even offering balanced items for RL money would unbalance play time, economics and effort. Even if these items were blues, Green farming would die along with its profits. Purchasing even special promo skins of armor would kill the price and availability of certain craft materials, as no one would need to grind for armor. And before anyone says “Anet won’t do it” keep in mind: people asked for things like this to be added to the online store as well as UAS. It’s safe to presume—from their granting UAS in the first place despite its potential to imbalance to certain game types—that if enough people ask in forums, Anet will acquiesce.

6 Paying to obtain unbalanced PvP content. 6 is fundamentally the same argument as 2, only even more foolish if implemented. I agree completely; no way in hell.

EDIT: I used RA to make a point; not to devalue RA or its player base. There are many people who I am sure enjoy Random. But I do not think that those people--and many other sub-sections of players in Tyria and Cantha--are represented in this thread or this forum. Before anyone else comes in here with blanket statements about "the players" this and "the players" that remember: Guild Wars caters to multiple types of users and multiple styles of play. Just because the people you play with like or dislike what they are seeing here does not give you omnicience to the minds of all people in-game. Think about your own arguments before you post again people; I'm getting tired of folks trying to shove words in MY mouth, much less those who have yet to speak here en masse.

*Looks down at next post* I'm curious; what rank are YOU Spike? Fighting fire with fire in a forum like this will only get your fingers burned.